ವಿಕಿಪೀಡಿಯ:Deletion review/Log/2014 March 21

21 March 2014

Blue Morpho Ayahuasca center

Blue Morpho Ayahuasca center (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

I guess part of this was my fault for being too busy to pay attention to the AfD and not providing sources when requested, but I'm flabbergasted to see an AfD closed as delete (by an arb no less!) when so many reliable sources on the subject are available. I hadn't been tracking it that closely, but it seems like absolutely no one involved in the AfD actually bothered to use google. Here are a bunch of results from the first few pages of Google that clearly indicate Blue Morpho exceeds the GNG by a pretty massive margin. The solution to an underdeveloped article is not to delete it, most Wikipedia articles started off underdeveloped - it's to source it. Articles that make non-trivial mentions of Blue Morpho Ayahuasca Center (with some differences in naming as is typical) taken from the first five pages of google: Time Magazine talking about it, Peru This Week with a whole article focused on it, Houston Chronicle article primarily focused around Blue Morpho, Nat Geo talking about ayahuasca that talks a lot about Blue Morpho, NPR talking quite a bit about Blue Morpho, The New York Times talking quite a bit about Blue Morpho, and Fox News even talks a bit about Blue Morpho. And that's just from the first five pages of Google, I'm sure there's plenty more past that (or in gbook, gscholar, etc.) It's honestly just kind of disappointing to see an AfD with so many easily available sources closed as delete - it seems like literally not a single participant bothered to open google. Kevin Gorman (talk) 13:40, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

• Endorse and consider early closure. Nominator is misusing DRV as a platform to attack other participants in the AFD with whom they disagreed. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:39, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Starblind, please explain to me how delete is an appropriate outcome about a business that has at least seven sources, some of very high quality, that appear to easily sail above the GNG. Please note that the coverage I mentioned here was also mentioned in the original AfD, I just didn't see a need to hyperlink it at the time (and missed the later request for me to do so, because I've both been busy and have a rather extensive watchlist) since every article I've linked was found within the first five pages of a google search for "Blue Morpho ayahuasca." There's only two remotely reasonably policy compliant outcomes here: restore the article and relist the AfD for future discussion, or just change the AfD to 'keep,' since that way we'll have to spend less time discussing it. And yes, frankly I am disappointed that it appears that no other participant but myself in the entire AfD bothered to even google the article they were voting about, and no, stating that disappointment doesn't automagically invalidate the very valid points I raised in the DRV. Kevin Gorman (talk) 16:57, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Two people specifically said they could not find sources (one even specifically said they googled), yet you're saying that "not a single participant bothered to open google". Why are you accusing these editors of lying, entirely without evidence? That's a totally unacceptable personal attack. Please refer to the top of this very page, where it says "Deletion Review should not be used... to attack other editors, cast aspersions, or make accusations of bias (such requests may be speedily closed)." Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 19:11, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Would you like me to link you to each explicit Google page that has the hyperlinks I included in this DRV? If others Googled, they didn't Google very carefully. The links were there when I made my comment, and they are still there today. If you're seriously suggesting that this DRV should be closed because of something that falls fall short of NPA when it's abundantly clear Blue Morpho exceeds the GNG by miles, I'm honestly just confused. Kevin Gorman (talk) 21:07, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

• temporarily restored for discussion at Deletion Review DGG ( talk ) 21:20, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

• Endorse but allow recreation - there's nothing wrong with the close, even if there might be something wrong with the result. Admins shouldn't be searching for sources themselves and then super-voting AFDs closed against consensus. Consensus was to delete. An experienced editor tried to find the sources you said you could find but failed and asked if you would provide links. You didn't. That's unfortunate but that's not a failure of the closer. You've provided now what you didn't provided then and you should absolutely be allowed to use those sources to create a new article. Hell, I'd venture to suggest the closing admin would be happy to send a copy of the article to your userspace to facilitate that. Your anger here is understandable but entirely misdirected. Stalwart111 21:41, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
• Endorse as the only possible option that the closing administrator had given what he had to work with in the AFD. With that said, minimal participation in AFD discussions is an increasingly large problem for admins working in the space, and I suspect there will be more and more discussions like these where issues are not raised within the limited timeframe of a discussion. It is beyond the scope of DRV, but we need to have a discussion as a community about this. In this particular case, given the low level of participation, I think it makes sense to treat it as a soft delete and allow recreation, with a proviso to the recreator that they must include the additional sources into the article and not expect someone else to do it. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 05:30, 22 March 2014 (UTC).

  As an aside, the instructions for DRV make it quite clear that you're expected to discuss the outcome with the closing admin before taking a discussion here. I don't see anything on Silvio's talk page. Kevin, did you discuss this with Silvio and if you did, what reason did he give for not overturning his own close? Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 02:03, 23 March 2014 (UTC).

• Endorse and speedy close this absurd nomination The only other action the closing admin could have possibly taken, given the discussion that existed, was to relist this for a third week, but was certainly under no obligation to do so. The close was totally correct. And slap @Kevin Gorman: with a WP:TROUT for thinking that his failure to either edit the article to include better sources, or participate in the AfD, in any way justifies this abuse of the deletion review process. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:00, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
• Endorse but permit recreation- Based on the discussion, I don't think the closer could have done differently. This is a perfect example of why it's better to provide sources instead of just asserting they exist. But, since the necessary sources have come to light the article can be re-created. Reyk _YO! 03:03, 23 March 2014 (UTC)